TALATERRA

Bethan Burton: International Nature Journaling Week

Episode Summary

Bethan Burton is a teacher, avid nature journaler, and founder of International Nature Journaling Week, an online global celebration occurring June 1-7, 2020. When did Bethan decide to make journaling her career? How does she teach nature journaling to toddlers? What is International Nature Journaling Week all about? Let's find out.

Episode Notes

Bethan Burton is a teacher, avid nature journaler, and founder of International Nature Journaling Week, an online global celebration occurring June 1-7, 2020.

When did Bethan decide to make journaling her career?

How does she teach nature journaling to toddlers?

What is International Nature Journaling Week all about?

Let's find out.

 

LINKS

Journaling with Nature (Bethan's website)

Bethan on Instagram (@journalingwithnature)

International Nature Journaling Week

Alfred Russel Wallace

The Sketchbook Project at Brooklyn Art Library

 

Episode Transcription

Episode 50: Bethan Burton, International Nature Journaling Week

March 26, 2020

 

Tania Marien  0:07

Welcome to Talaterra, a podcast about freelance educators working in natural resource fields and environmental education. Who are these educators? What do they do? Join me, and let's find out together. This is your host, Tania. Marien.

Today, my guest is Bethan Burton. Bethan is a teacher and avid nature journaler and the founder of International Nature Journaling Week, an online global event occurring this June for the first time. When did Bethan decide to make journaling her career? How does she teach nature journaling to toddlers? What will we be able to do during International Nature Journaling Week? Let's find out.

If you can introduce yourself to listeners, please.

 

Bethan Burton  1:10

Yeah, my name is Bethany Burton. I'm an artist and environmental educator. And my passion is connecting people with nature. And I do that primarily through nature journaling, teaching nature journaling, online and also in, in workshops in real life. And it is something that brings me absolute joy and it's something that I want to grow in the future. And it's just my, it's just my passion.

 

Tania Marien  1:41

How long have you been nature journaling?

 

Bethan Burton  1:43

I've been nature journaling. I was thinking about this recently I I did my very very first nature journal, which I didn't call a nature journal like it was, it was a field journal. I studied a Bachelor Science in ecology and conservation biology and in my early one of my early courses was a biology course and we had an amazing lecturer or one of those lecturers that is just completely inspirational. Everyone wants to go to his classes and and he offered,  for the people who did well in his class, the top 20 students, I think he took on a field trip to Borneo the following year. And so we had he was very interested in naturalist natural history, obviously, but he likes to think of naturalist like Alfred Russel Wallace. And because Alfred Russel Wallace drew a line through that area and described the, the flora and fauna on one side of the line and it was very different from the flora and fauna on the other side of the line, even though proximity was really close. And so he was very big on field journals. So we so when we were on this field trip in Borneo, I kept a field journal and it was. And now looking back I realized that was my that was my first nature journal. It was very different because it was for a course and and I was keeping a lot of species lists and stuff like that in that journal. But yeah, it's fun to look back on those and realize, Oh, yeah, I started this before. But my so my first my very first personal nature journal I did, during a time of illness, I had a chronic illness that really debilitated me and I was at home I was unable to do a lot of things but I was able to go outside and connect with nature. And so I did just that I took a nature journal outside and I looked at the things in my backyard, I actually found a beautiful place to to position myself in my backyard and I had a pair of binoculars and I would go out there and I would get some sunshine and breathe some clean air and I would watch with my binoculars what was going on, there was some big beautiful gum trees in my backyard and, and I started to realize this this amazing neighborhood of wildlife activity that's going on out there. And I had my binoculars and I found a pair of crows that were nesting. And I'd watch the crows coming and going from the nest. And I would write that in my journal and I would watch ants going along in a trail and wonder where they were going and follow the trail and it was a really beautiful healing time for me to calm the nervous system. And it was the beginning of my journaling practice. And it was also an incredible meditative time. And I realized how, how calming and how nature journaling connects with mindfulness and and health in the same way and it really was the beginning of my healing because I was able to calm myself connect with nature. And find that I am actually Okay in this moment and my body is okay. And nature was the beginning of my healing in that way.
 

Tania Marien  5:10

Who gave you your first journal when you were young?
 

Bethan Burton 5:14

My first. And you know, in fact, this, this funny thing happened because I started this whole process, this whole process of becoming a nature journal and an environmental educator in this space. And my dad came to me fairly recently, and he said, "I found this I was looking, I was looking through some old stuff, and I found this" and it was actually this paper journal which had been stapled at the top. And it said "Bethan's Flower Notebook" or something like that, and it and I didn't have a date on it. So I don't know how old I was. But it was very beginnings of when I was writing, and it was exactly the same as what I'm doing now is totally weird, because it had diagrams and it had labels and it had little comments like "Take a look at the stem" and, and then it had in a document, the life cycle of a flower and it said, I can't remember exactly what it said, but it was about some flowers of blue, some flowers or pink. Some flowers have this or that and some flower, but all flowers die. And it was the thing to see the labels there and the drawings and the commentary and everything like I'm doing now, from back then I wish I wish I had a date on it. And my dad had kept this which is it was just such a beautiful thing to see. So I guess it has been in me for a long time.

 

Tania Marien  6:44

Yeah, though. That's wonderful. That's that's a fun discovery.

 

Bethan Burton  6:49

Yeah, it was a treasure. Icouldn't believe it.

 

Tania Marien  6:51

And a really nice family memento as well. So then you must have spent a lot of time out in nature, which You were small, a lot of time outside.

 

Bethan Burton  7:02

Yeah. In fact, my dad was a big inspiration for that my dad love taking us on trips for fossicking and rock finding when we were young. And I really remember this going out with him and walking up dry creek beds and searching for, for sapphires and things like that. And I don't I don't know that we ever found anything really, I just have this very strong memory of being outside and the adventure of it all. And we would take the stones home and he would tumble them, he had a tumbler at home and they would come out or beautiful and shiny. And so those expeditions were really valuable. And then I had my education. My primary school education was at a democratic primary school where there was a lot of freedom. We didn't have classes in the same way that regular school has. And we had a lot of land we had 13 acres of land where the kids just roamed around and spent time in nature and looked after the animals that were there. And that was a really huge part of my nature connection and where, where I feel like my exposure to it all started.

 

Tania Marien  8:12

Wow. And so then was it, okay in the States. Was it like a charter school then, a private school? Yeah with a private school? Yeah, with its own focus.
 

Bethan Burton  8:23

Yes. So I said democratic school. I never called it back then a democratic school. But now I understand that that's what it was. It's like the kids are choosing their own pathway. And all the kids have a voice all the kids have a vote. There was a lot of meetings and discussions and the children, even the youngest children have equal voice in in how things are run. And so the teachers, the teachers role was to follow the kids in their interests. And so I was very passionate about environment and so the teachers would follow that and their job was just supporting what the kids decided was important for them in their education.

 

Tania Marien  9:07

That's a different format. And so what grades did that cover then?

 

Bethan Burton  9:11

That was from the very beginning of school. So age five until the beginning of high school. So it wasn't High School, but it was the primary use up to grade seven. I'm not sure how it is in the USA, but
 

Tania Marien  9:24

It would be eighth grade here.
 

Bethan Burton  9:25

Yeah, yeah. So it was very, very formative for me very much a part of who I am. And a beautiful way to be educated in those early years because there was so much freedom, but also because, yeah, I just got to follow the things that I was passionate about.

 

Tania Marien  9:45

Did you continue your interest in nature? Did that continue into high school and beyond high school?

 

Bethan Burton  9:53

Yeah, so when I went to high school, I was it was a very, it was a bit of a shock the transition because I went from this free school to a normal setting. And I was I was actually quite excited in the beginning because it was a novelty. And so it was the very first time I'd sat behind a desk. And actually, in my, in my primary school, we used to play schools and someone would pretend to be the teacher and help him pretend to sit behind a desk. But in my high school, it was the first time I'd done it for real. And I was actually quite excited about my first exam and my first lesson. And the novelty did wear off quite quickly. But yes, so that transition was interesting. And I found myself. I was a very outspoken passionate vegetarian, and environmentalist and I kept on saying these things in my high school that was drawing attention to me and people. Well, I mean, just because I was really outspoken about certain things that I was passionate about. And so I got a bit of a reputation in my high school for being the vegetarian activist and, and I moved on to Year 9 the next level up and there was another young girl who was a outspoken vegetarian rebel as well. And they paired us up and then we decided to do stuff like we would send out petitions, and we would get everyone to sign because it was a girls college and we would get all the girls to sign a petition saying they were a pledge to say that they weren't going to use they were going to use cruelty free makeup and stuff like that. And yeah, so that was my that was my early high school years. Actually, before that. I yeah, I was very, very active in writing letter writing when I was a young kid. And I used to write to all the fast food places and anyone I could think of to say, "Hey, what are you doing for the environment? What do you what are your credentials? How? How are you going to convince me to come to your to your restaurant or your shop by convincing me that you're doing good things for the environment." And I had. Yeah, I actually got asked when I was 12 to go to the USA, it was around the time of the Earth Summit in 1992. And I was involved with a kid's environmental group, and corresponding, and they asked me to go and join in a side conference in New York to talk about environment and kids, what kids were doing in Australia, and we didn't, we couldn't raise the funding to go there, unfortunately, but it was, but it was a time for me of real like, activity and activism when I was around that age.

 

Tania Marien  12:35

When you went to college, then how did you how did you continue? What did you do in college then?
 

Bethan Burton 12:40

Yeah, so I actually straight out of high school, I started studying art at University, and I chose the wrong course I chose visual art and I guess I should have chosen fine art because I wanted to learn technical skills of etching and that sort of thing. And the course just wasn't right for me. So I dropped out quite soon after that, and I will I went traveling, I did the whole overseas experience that people did. And I traveled. I traveled to New Zealand in the beginning, and I was by myself with a huge backpack. And I did a lot of hiking there. And that actually was really formative for me as well, because I was hiking long distances over a week or two weeks alone. And that really does something to you, internally when you're hiking alone, and it really cemented my passion for nature and the environment. And then I went to England and did some more traveling. And then when I came back to Australia, I studied ecology and conservation biology. And that was, that was wonderful. I'm really glad I did that. But I came out the other end and I realized that I didn't want to be a field scientist. I didn't want to be a research scientist, and I and I wasn't really sure what I wanted to do. And then someone said to me, it was another student, she said something about environmental education. And just when she said those words, it was like "ding," a light bulb went off and, and I thought environmental education, because I, I really wanted to be able to transfer my passion and I thought maybe maybe environmental education. So I looked into it. And then I went back to Uni, and I did a master of environment, in education for sustainability. And when I was doing that, it was it was just the right fit for me. And so that was the time when I suddenly felt Oh, yeah, okay, I'm, I'm in the right space. I'm in the right place for me.
 

Tania Marien  14:43

And how long have you been working in environmental education?

 

Bethan Burton  14:46

And so, I've been doing nature journaling for for many years, maybe seven years, but I've been doing it for like professionally for the last three years, maybe. And it's just growing, you know, I started off it. So, several years ago, I started realizing, okay, this is exactly where I want to be the space that I want to be in. And I started, I didn't really know how to how or what it was gonna look like, and maybe you've had this experience, you know, as a freelance environmental educator, it's like, people say, Well, where is your job going to be? Are you going to be in a school or you're going to be here or they're in an environment center? And sometimes it's hard to answer that question. So I thought, this is the space I want to be in and I don't quite know yet what it's gonna look like. And so I was just journaling and journaling and journaling and it was such a beautiful experience for me and I wanted to share it so I, I didn't know how to do that. I just started putting things on Instagram. And I started building up this Instagram page and I started getting a really good response from it. And one day I got a message from some someone locally and it was someone who runs a bushcraft business and he said I love your work. I'd love to connect with you. And so I started going to these bushcraft workshops. And that was amazing. I took my young son with me and it was one of those experiences where, you know, kids can be kind of here there and everywhere and running around and crazy. And when we were out there at bushcraft, he was just completely calm. It was beautiful. It was like he was in his centered place as well. And so then this, this person said to me, I love your work. And I'd love you to share that with our bushcraft group. And so that was my very first experience teaching in this space. And it was it was amazing, truly amazing. I took all my art gear and set it all up for everyone and we went out into the field and it was a whole spectrum of ages. My son at that time was one and a half, I think and then there was up to older people. So there was no there was no boxes around anyone. It was just this beautiful free group. And we sat down, I said to them, just go out and have a little look around and find something that you'd like to respond to, and bring it back to the mat. And we'll do some journaling together. And off they went. They went out and people brought things back one by one, and some people had feathers, and some people had leaves and some kids had a grasshopper in a little container that I brought for looking at insects, and they just sat down. And it was the most amazing point. And I think that in fact, that was the point. When I looked around and thought, this is it. This is this is my life's work because it was it was so beautiful and so calming. And then everyone started to draw and paint and everyone was quiet, and I could hear the nature sounds around us and there was maybe 15 people all pens and paintbrushes moving at the same time and it was just a magical moment. Really.

 

Tania Marien  18:07

Oh, that does sound wonderful. Okay, so I need I need to ask, can you define bushcraft for me?

 

Bethan Burton  18:14

Yeah, sure bushcraft is all the things you might need if you were, it's not. It's not, it's more than survival skills, but it does include that so bushcraft involves making making structures and whittling and all the things that you might do in nature and with nature and bush craft can encompass nature journaling, because nature journaling is a really wonderful way of knowing your environment and bushcraft is all about knowing your environment and learning to to live and survive in your environment. So that's how bushcraft and nature generally come together.

 

Tania Marien  18:51

Yeah. Oh, wow. Okay, so you mentioned that your son was a year-and-a-half at the time and part two Painted as well. You teach nature journaling for toddlers. Yes. What does that class look like? What do you Yes?

 

Bethan Burton  19:10

Yeah, it's funny because I have worked with the whole range of groups. I've worked with professional development groups. And I've worked with teenagers and I've worked with children and I have also worked with toddlers. And nature journaling with toddlers is completely chaotic, and wonderful. So, the most recent one I did with some very young children around two years old. It really is just mark making and chatting with them. And the class that I'm thinking of, we had about 20 families and it was paint everywhere and people stepping on water bottles and you know, water containers knocking over and it was completely it was complete madness, but it was beautiful as well. And there was toddlers painting their own feet, and there was a You know, footprint making and that sort of thing. So it's very different depending on the ages. But when I'm journaling with my son and he, he's now three and a half and he, he is amazing. He he astonishes me with the things that he takes in and I guess he has, over the years watched me journaling and he, he gets it, he really gets it. And so, in a class setting with toddlers, it's it's Bedlam. But when a parent is journaling with a young child, it can be absolutely calming and beautiful for everyone. And so when I sit down with my son, we usually take our generals outside and we sit together and we might respond to a flower or leaf or, or something or a series of things. And he, he knows that I will draw something and then I'll label it and I'll write some things about it. And he, he wants to do it. So he takes the pen and he says, I'll do it. He, he can't write yet, of course, but he just makes marks and says, pink leaf with a green stem and he makes it's completely adorable. But it is really amazing to me to watch him do it because I see it opens him. And one day we sat down and we were journaling. And he, he, I often use loupes and magnifying glasses and those sorts of things to look closely at nature and my son had a loupe up to his own. He's looking down at the grass and he said, "Mommy, I never realized grass was so beautiful." And when he said that, it was like wow, this is it. He gets it you know that there is and this is one of the things about nature journaling, it's that there's wonder absolutely everywhere and when we start to nature journal we can we can really submit this in our consciousness that wonder is everywhere. This world is amazing. And when he said that about the grass, I thought yeah, he's, he's getting it, it's really sinking in. And it's beautiful to see. Because I really strongly believe that when you want to give someone the experience of, of nature and you want them to it to sink deeply into their consciousness, and hopefully in the future, it will lead to them being environmental citizens who look after the earth. The way to do this is to give them an emotional experience. And so that's something that I find really wonderful about nature journaling because it gives you an emotional connection to nature. And, and I see that in my son. He's experiencing that already. And he's very young. And so hopefully, my hope is that he will take that with him into his life. And I think that's something really beautiful that we can all do for our kids is to expose them as much as we can to nature, and wonder and these emotional experiences that move them really early in their lives.
 

Tania Marien  22:59

You have some photographs of you and your son on your website. And he looks very involved in and focused and committed. Yeah, that comes through and those images

 

Bethan Burton  23:11

Yeah,he always wants to sit with me. He always wants his own stuff and he wants and, and we do this thing where we talk about what we can hear and really explore the senses together. And he, he engages with that completely and he tells me what it can hear and what he can feel and the texture of the leaf and yeah, he is he's really engaged in it already. And it's beautiful. I'm excited to see how that unfolds as he gets older and, and to do more wide adventures together.

 

Tania Marien  23:40

So you launched an initiative earlier this year to host the first International Nature Journal Week. That's right. How did this event develop? How did you get the idea and what are how have you set it up?

 

Bethan Burton 23:57

Yes, international next generally week is going to be Be on the first to the first of the seventh of June. And how did I get the idea? I just came to me because my absolute passion is spreading nature journaling and helping other people in whatever way I can. I often get questions on through email or through Instagram about how can I do this? or How can I do that? How can I improve this aspect of nature journaling? And I love answering those questions. And I love supporting people in in their journey to bring nature journaling into their lives. And I find myself with a head full of ideas, always always with a head full of ideas. And this one just came to me and I thought, how can I how can we support more nature journaling more more people to be exposed to nature journaling in the world and it just came to me that this could be one way to do it. And so my idea with International Nature Journaling Week is to celebrate nature journaling, support those who are already doing it and come together to celebrate and do it at the same time, and also get the word out because this is something that is really growing, you know, it's growing really fast. And I want to support that growth and support new people to come and see how healing and wonderful this this can be.

 

Tania Marien  25:25

And how are you doing this through your initiative?

 

Bethan Burton  25:28

Yes. So I've there's a website that I've set up and it's NatureJournalingWeek.com. And on the website I've got, there's a blog there and I've invited many, many nature journalists from all around the world to contribute a guest blog or guest contribution to the blog, and I'm putting up guest blogs every week. And so you can sign up to the newsletter and I send out a newsletter, about the guest blog each week. And it's beautiful to see because they the blogs are just rolling in now my my work is to put them on online and to get the word out about them. And it's amazing to see all the different ways that people keep a journal and all the different things they take from it. Because nature journaling is very individual, you do it in your own way, and you take what resonates with you from from that. And so it's beautiful to see all the different, all the different ways people are doing it. And so that is that's in the that's in the lead up to the actual week. And when in during the week itself, we're going to have, I'm going to send out lots of tips and tricks and inspiration and videos and content to keep people motivated and give ideas and there's going to be some surprises. There's going to be some very exciting guest blogs going up during that week. Yeah, so it will be interesting to see how it plays out. We're going to do some in-person live events all around the world. And I'm not sure how that's actually going to play out now because the world is changing and people are isolating at the moment. But that doesn't matter. Because even if you can't go anywhere, you can look outside and the sky is there. And there's lots of ways to connect with nature.

 

Tania Marien  27:20

And so you have at this time you have seven guest bloggers. Yeah. And each article is so different. And that's what I see. Yeah, their approaches are different their styles, their writing styles, it's really, really nice to see. It's just very refreshing.
 

Bethan Burton  27:40

Yeah, that's what I love about it that everyone brings their own perspective to it. And even if they're writing about the same thing, some people are writing about what it means to them and each person what it means to them is different and that's beautiful to see.
 

Tania Marien  27:54

What do you hope comes out of your inaugural International Nature Journal Week?
 

Bethan Burton  28:01

Yeah, I hope that it's something that will inspire and bring people together. And it will be interesting to see because it's going to be worldwide and because it's going to be spread across a number of different platforms. And we won't know exactly what it looks like for everybody and that's okay. Because I just want my passion is just spreading nature journaling and the benefits of that and so, I hope that we can see some of what is happening out there. And, and also, it just makes me happy to know that people will be journaling all at once. There's something really beautiful and amazing about everyone doing something at the same time and it will I hope, it's just gonna be a celebration of nature journaling and what that means for us.

 

Tania Marien  28:54

You picked June for this event. Is there a reason why you picked this time of year or Is it just strictly practical? Because that's falls in line with summer vacation? And well, not for you, though?

 

Bethan Burton  29:06

No, that's right. Yeah, there is actually a reason I chose that day. And because last year, I ran a challenge on Instagram. And the challenge was, I called it, "Let's Color April" and I was getting really involved in color mixing and color theory. And I wanted to so the challenge was that we would paint something from something of each color around the color wheel during April. And I did that and it was beautiful. And it was a wonderful success. But there was several people because it's a because the world is a global place. And because there were people from everywhere. Some people were saying, Oh, it's really hard to find anything in nature at this time because the snow is still around and because I come from an evergreen place. I live in Brisbane, Australia and we, our environment doesn't really change. Of course it changes but everything is always green here, it didn't even come into my head that there would be people who couldn't find these colors during April and then I realized, wow, okay, I need to adjust. So when it came to making a date for Nature Journaling Week I thought, okay, I need to put it in, in spring and summer for the northern hemisphere so that there's there's no snow so that people can access nature. Because even in winter, here, we have it, we have an evergreen environment.
 

Tania Marien  30:31

How do you transfer your passion for nature journaling? How do you go about it? What have you found that works for you and with people?
 

Bethan Burton  30:42

I think it goes back to that thing of giving someone an emotional experience or or an experience that gives them some surprise or wonder. And I think once you've done that, your work is you're, not your work is done but your work is It has started because that opens the door. And so when in my nature journaling workshop, I like to really help people find that place of wonder. And it's not very hard because I think people, people come into that setting really open and excited. And so I just provide, I just guide them in, in looking in the right places and nature has so many amazing wonderful things to share. And, and so we just, I love to get down on hands and knees and look at things really closely and I have this, I have this thought like it's, it really pleases me that you can look out into space or into the universe and realize where we are tiny minuscule compared to what is above us. And then you can also look down and you can look with a microscope or a loupe and you can see that there is this infinite world below us as well that we're enormous compared to what is what what we can see and what goes on this infinite world of intricate goings on beneath us. And through my work, I like to guide people to understand that that we are in amongst it, and that there is infinity above and below us and when you can help someone see that we're part of this crazy, amazing, intricate circus that's going on all around us. It's, it's easy to tap into that sense of wonder and it's and it brings them to the, to the point of being able to, to go forward and to explore.

 

Tania Marien  32:49

What's next for you?

 

Bethan Burton  32:51

Ah, I have so many ideas, so many things I want to explore. One big project that I'm working on is developing some resources and potentially a book going deeply into Australian nature because there's lots of resources for, particularly for children and homeschoolers that explore nature in the Northern Hemisphere. And there's not a lot of resources that explore nature in Australia. And Australia has such unique flora and fauna and environments that and I connect with nature here in in a really deep and powerful way. And I'd like to share that with other people by developing some resources to explore Australian nature. And I also have other ideas for creating online courses for nature journaling, and I would love to develop something like a nature journal exchange. I have, I have a real passion for connecting people through nature journaling, but all around the world. And so it would be super exciting to develop some sort of nature journal exchange where a journal moves around the world, so that could be that could be part of the next the next day.

 

Tania Marien  34:05

Yeah, that would be fantastic. Yes, I've seen other people do something similar, but it wasn't necessarily a nature journal. It was a, you know, a book, a sketchbook.
 

Bethan Burton  34:16

We've got something going similar and the book is, I don't know where it is at this point. But have you heard of The Sketchbook Project? It's a project by the Brooklyn Art Library and they do something called a Tiny Sketchbook Project. And so I did a nature journal as a tiny sketchbook. And then I connected with someone else who also did a nature journal in a tiny sketchbook. And we decided that we wanted to do an exchange ourselves independently of this project. And so we started this little sketchbook and we have sent it so far, I think to five journalers around the world and it's again, it's amazing to see how different everything is, each person's contribution, but so beautiful. And it's, it's gonna circle the world. And then when the pages are full, I don't know what but it's, it's, I don't know where it will end up. But it's, it's a really beautiful thing to connect with people because we connect online but and that's beautiful as well but to have something physical in your hand that someone's put pen to paper, it's there's something really special about that. And I've just connected with a friend of mine who's got two daughters who are very interested in nature journaling in there. They actually live in the Shetland Islands in Scotland. And we are doing a nature journal exchange now. I have sent them my first entry into a nature journal and they're going to teach me about Shetland Islands and we'll send the journal back and forward and I think there's something really special about that.

 

Tania Marien  35:52

That is a wonderful way to learn about the world.
 

Bethan Burton  35:57

Yeah, we're so much to learn, and we Can't we can't know everything but to connect in a little way with someone else's home environment is is really special and you learn a lot about nature that way and you learn a lot about the person as well.

 

Tania Marien  36:16

To learn more about Bethan, visit the links in the show notes. Here you will find links to her personal website where you can view her online gallery, a link to her Instagram feed, as well as a link to NatureJournalingWeek.com. Talaterra is a podcast for and about independent educators working in natural resource fields and environmental education. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with friends and colleagues. Thank you so much for joining us today. This is Tania Marien